A father reached out for help after receiving a thought provoking question from his daughter. Read his comment below and then feel free to share your thoughts.
Does anyone have firsthand advice for parents trying to teach standards to their children when it feels like many others aren’t living them?
The modesty issue with my kids is very real right now. Last year I had a conversation with my daughters about modesty and keeping our bodies sacred. (For context, they attend a K–12 moral and wholesome charter school where they wear uniforms and follow a strict dress code.)
That same week we went to a temple sealing. Many of the women there had their chests spilling out of their clothing… in the temple! Many were the spouses and children of leadership. Sundays at church are no different.
In response to me relaying this to the family, my eight-year-old said to me: “Dad… if our bodies are sacred, why do people dress more modestly at school than at church and the temple?” I didn’t have a clear answer beyond: “People’s standards of modesty are clearly different from ours, sis. Our job is to love them and stick to our own standards no matter what anyone else is doing around us.”
That answer worked for my oldest, but my 8-year-old thought it was pretty weak. Never in my life did I expect my kids’ school to one day have a higher standard of modesty than members of my faith in our most sacred places.
What advice can you give to this father and he tries to explain this to his child? Please leave it in the comments below.
Proverbs is full of great advice. Chapter 15 is packed with great wisdom. Example 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.
Now as far as the new garments, they are supposed to be for the health of the Lord’s saints. At least that’s what I’ve heard. If it is, the human designer of the clothes has failed. I don’t find them that great. They’re too hot, which I believe is against their purpose. Although it might be because of UV protection. Then maybe they’re spot on, but I can’t wear them.
Still this doesn’t mean the Lord has changed his standards. He doesn’t want his children to flaunt themselves even if the heat of these last days is going to become unbearable. However, two layers of clothing can be excruciating to those living in such heat or humidity.
I know people who are already struggling with the heat. Someone near and dear to me chooses clothing that keeps him from going into a panic attack. So I understand the need for less underneath.
I do not agree with altering what you wear to fit the new garments though. For myself, it makes me very uncomfortable when someone is skimpily dressed. In addition, it does attract unwanted attention. The kind of person who admires such flaunting is not someone you would want to spend eternity with.
I have thought some time on this subject and this is my conclusion. You would have to pray about it to know if my deduction is correct. I do know that God will help you know what to say to your 8 year old.
I live in the South, therefore I’m a minority in my community. I have a 12 y/o granddaughter, not a member, but she understands my standards. I feel like I fight a battle between her parents standards and mine. I take her to church so long as she is covered. I figure she needs to be in church and I won’t fight her and lose my relationship with her. In our town modesty is sorely lacking. I just teach her that her body is sacred and a gift from Heavenly Father. Keep up the fight for your standards. And yes, some people are not the best example. Explain agency is a choice with potentially positive or negative consequences.
I think the father already gave his daughter the best answer: other people have different standards, and our job is to love them and live according to our own.
An eight-year-old finding that answer unsatisfying doesn’t make it weak. What I find troubling is that this post seems to be asking for “advice” on a more sophisticated way to justify judging other people’s bodies while ostensibly teaching the child not to judge them. Maybe the adults need to take their own advice.
And I also find it deeply uncomfortable that a man is publicly describing women as having their chests “spilling out” of their clothing, and then specifically identifying some of those women as the “spouses and children of leadership.” Why is their relationship to male church leaders relevant to a question about modesty at all? The women’s bodies and clothing are being discussed and evaluated, while their connection to men with leadership status is explicitly singled out.
That framing is deeply gendered, and I think it’s worth asking what exactly we’re teaching children when we make other women’s bodies the subject of this much moral scrutiny.
Not really my business what other people wear or how they do it, but I believe that the most recent changes in temple garments for women were a step in the right wrong direction. I have noticed a distinct difference in the way many women and young women dress in church since temple garments for women previously allowed in hot climates are available everywhere. And it feels like the change in availability was due to pressure from women members of the Church who wanted more relaxed modesty standards. The result? Give them an inch and they take a mile. On another note, our sister missionaries are always beautifully dressed and groomed, and the style of dress recommended for them could seem outdated and overly “peasant” to some. Once in a while one comes along who dresses somewhat more in vogue, but always tastefully, and I always appreciate the willingness of she who comes across as modest, yet a little more up to date on her dress. Thank you for this discussion.
I have struggled with the change of the garments. In the temple we are taught that the garments put on Adam and Eve were to cover their nakedness. It seems that the garments are being changed to adjust with the rising styles the members want to wear instead of expecting them to cover the garment that was created to cover the body. I was sad when they did away with the original temple garment in the 1970’s. Then they shortened the sleeve of the women’s garment so it would fit the trending cap sleeve tee shirt. Now they have adjusted it again for tank tops, V necks and lower backs. People say that as long as the marks are on the garment it is okay. I am sorry but I disagree. I don’t know who presents the changes to the apostles but they must really put on a great presentation to convince them to support the current changes. It is sad when you see these women walk into church and the temple in tank tops and really short dresses that also show their cleavage. These women seem happy, but they do not glow like the ones that are wearing clothes that are considered modest and cover their bodies.
there have been stories where even the GA’s have had to instruct their grandchildren (and children) on proper temple attire and garment wearing. Everybody is in danger of taking the sacred covenants too casually. I know that I need to keep a constant vigilance in keeping and honoring my Temple Covenants.
@Sheila Lundquist
I have been wondering the same thing as your daughter. I use to like the feeling we were separated from the world in our dress standards but we are becoming more like the world. I keep waiting for our church leaders to steer the pendulum back. I have seen mini skirts and hot pants with fleeced lined nude tights at church worn by returned sister missionaries. I’ve tried praying about my thoughts but the spirit constrains me.
From his April 2019 talk “Behold the Lamb of God,” Elder Holland states. “ “Sunday best” has lost a little of its meaning in our time, and out of esteem for Him into whose presence we come, we ought to restore that tradition of Sabbath dress and grooming when and where we can.” “Brothers and sisters, this hour ordained of the Lord is the most sacred hour of our week.” “…with the exciting new emphasis on increased gospel learning in the home, it is crucial for us to remember that we are still commanded to “go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day.” In addition to making time for more home-centered gospel instruction, our modified Sunday service is also to reduce the complexity of the meeting schedule in a way that properly emphasizes the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper as the sacred, acknowledged focal point of our weekly worship experience. We are to remember in as personal a way as possible that Christ died from a heart broken by shouldering entirely alone the sins and sorrows of the whole human family.
Inasmuch as we contributed to that fatal burden, such a moment demands our respect. Thus, we are encouraged to come to our services early and reverently, dressed appropriately for participation in a sacred ordinance.”
I would add, that if we are asked to hold so much reverence and respect through actions, punctuality, and dress for our worship on Sunday, that should extend to our temple worship as well.
It sounds to me like your daughter is perhaps wondering if it’s ok to judge people she’s never met based solely on what they are wearing. You probably can’t get more “letter of the law” than that. But that’s not Christ’s way. He tells us not to look at the outward appearance, but to look on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
It is temping — and easy — to fall into this trap of judging others superficially. Implore her not to do it. It’s not what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us to do. She will need to decide what modesty means to her (well done teaching that!) and allow others to decide their definition as well. Yay, agency.
That’s a tough one. Perhaps your daughter needs to speak in church or even Stake Conference about modesty… “from the mouths of babes…”
However, a father-to-bishop (or father-to-Stake President) visit might address the problem somewhat. For those individuals who have not yet made covenants in the Temple, seeing others dress less modestly sends a FALSE message loud and clear that Temple Convenants are not that big a deal. For those who DO hold a Temple Recommend and profess to follow the guidelines, a review of modesty over the pulpit, or perhaps through Relief Society and YW, might help people understand that even a child can tell the difference. Yes, we want everyone to feel welcome, no matter how they are dressed. We need to refrain from judging others who are returning to the fold, those visiting, or those just not ready to make covenants. But those who hold Temple Recommends should review their wardrobe so that no one slips away because of how WE are dressed. Even a child can tell.
High standards are needed for those attending the Temple. It would appear that Bishops and Stake leaders are not doing their duties.
Many members have ” lost the plot “.
God ” will not be mocked “.
As a former high school teacher retired now for 18 years, I watched immodesty creep in mostly for the young women in my school. It seemed the less they could get away with wearing or the more revealing their clothes the more successful they thought they were. I would suggest to the young ladies that if they didn’t want young men or others, looking at their chest, they shouldn’t wear T-shirts with sayings on them that caused people to look and read. Sometimes this was a bit of a revelation to them. Midriff tops, very short shorts or skirts, very low-riding pants or skin tight leggings were not quite as acceptable then, but now are the way of everyday dress. As are spaghetti straps. One day, I asked my midriff-bearing granddaughter if her shirt had shrunk. I said it with a big smile and eyebrows raised. Surprisingly, she remained silent.
We walk a very delicate line between alienating and loving. I understand the change in the garments, but it seems that this trend has emboldened women to reveal even more of their bodies.
Whether it’s on TV, social media, in public or basically anywhere, women’s clothes are skimpier than men’s. Satan‘s deception of exposing the female body distorts the concept of true beauty. He is twisting the truth that the more you see the more beautiful you are when in fact a modestly attired woman can be exceptionally beautiful due to her poise and confidence, not because of the amount of skin she exposes.
Our writer is having talks with his daughters. That’s more than most parents are doing. I hope that he will point out beautiful women, modestly attired, and succeeding with confidence in today’s world. Some of the very best examples to follow are our General Young Women leaders, and the wives and officers of our Church leaders.
I think it is a test of our faith. Considering the look of the new garment, it allows people to show more of their bodies than we ever have before. Children these days are much more spiritually ready for these types of changes than we were. It’s our job to teach by faith.
In Australia our youth (and adults) always dress modestly in Church & Temples , slacks some people wear in church now in winter which I personally cannot manage but for church not a bad thing as we welcome visitors so they can feel comfortable & we change into Temple clothes once we are inside .
This was a tough read – I felt there was more judgement and condemning, than the appreciation of the fact that these people were in the Temple.
At least effort was made there, by those individuals who were being criticized for what they were wearing. We can assume that their standards were high enough to get a Temple recommend.
We do have standards and guidelines in the church and unless spelled out exactly, they’re open to the individual’s interpretations and thus they will follow the standards and guidelines accordingly.
All individuals, just needs to decide for themselves, what their line is and whether or not they will cross it.
It’s not up to anyone else to make that decision for them.
In a day and age where many people are made to feel less, on a daily basis – in the above mention story, the people mentioned – got up, got dressed in something that made them feel good and they then pushed forward with their day, which at one point – included a trip to the Temple – that seems like a win to me.
This is coming from a person who has always been criticized for something when at the temple – examples: my temple bag is too loud (I use a small, hard, antique train case – I LOVE IT SO MUCH), my nails were too bright (they were pale pink and the lady that told me this had bright red nails), my jewelry was too much (small pearl earrings and a single pearl on a chain and she had rings on each finger, large necklace and earrings to match), I even got a comment from a cafeteria staff member that I went to the temple “too often” (didn’t see that coming, did you?!?).
The point: Decide, for yourself, on how high you want your standards to be and strive to keep them.
As for everyone else, they need to do that on their own, for themselves – without judgement and criticism from those around them.
I’ve had to have the same discussion with my daughters… girls in other words and in our ward are walking around with bare midriffs and cleavage showing, super short shorts and skirts. It’s really hard. I’ve told my kids that their parents aren’t teaching them to respect their bodies like we do. I’ve seen girls come into the temple baptistry with their bums barely covered. My younger daughter was easier to talk with about it until the last year. She’s turning 16 soon and it’s getting worse. I think we need to talk to them more about what the Lord would want them to wear. My daughter was trying on swim suits last summer, and I asked her if she would feel comfortable in that swimsuit in the presence of the Lord or even her earthly father. She put several swim suits back because of it. So that might be a question to ask. But I think they need to gain a testimony of modest dress and that comes from talking to the Lord themselves and asking what the Lord wants.
I saw this same thing when our granddaughter was married, and I was so saddened. I know the new For the Strength of Youth doesn’t give specific standards, but it seems that modesty is no longer an accepted standard among many of the young people. I didn’t think the new garments were meant to let women be as immodest as the rest of the world. Thank you for posting this article, as I have been quite upset by this issue.
I have had the same experience, and it deeply saddens me. One time at a temple sealing/wedding, I could hardly concentrate on the spirit because of the cleavage I was forced to look at. I truly do not understand it.
Sadly people just don’t know their worth. They think the approval of others is where they find their significance. Woefully missing the entire point that we get our identity and meaning from our Savior who would absolutely prefer us to focus on lifting and serving others rather than distracting them visually with our body parts.
In our family, when we see people dressed like they need attention through looks from others, we observe that they don’t seem to have a great relationship with their father and don’t know who they really are, a son or daughter of God.
I saw a really great illustrative video once that pointed out, if a bowl of Hershey’s kisses gets passed around a group, no one will take an unwrapped candy from the bowl, at least as their first option. Likewise, when you dress immodestly, you are being the unwrapped candy that only people with low standards or no other options pay attention to.
Because we have had a firm conviction on modesty as a virtue, over a punishment or guilt trip, when our 17 year old son decided to start getting to know a girl he said she appealed to his interests because she dressed modestly, was athletic, and very kind. I thought that was super cute! And I was grateful there was a modest girl left in the world for him to desire to get to know based on her heart and testimony. (For the record she is thin and athletic but chooses to value herself and respect others in her appearance)
So grateful for this timely comment from your 8 year old daughter. I have had the same concerns regarding how to teach our grandchildren to always dress modestly.
These days are like no other. 2Nephi 28 explains attitudes of our day. The important part of teaching this concept is in verse 14. It states “… they have all gone astray save it be few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.”
This tells me that even among the humble followers of Christ, many will err because of the teachings and ways of the world.
Keep doing the great work and setting the standard high on morality. Not one bad thing will happen with this high standard, only good comes from it, and your example can and will lift others up!
This comment won’t help your current situation. I just want you to know that as an older woman I can see your struggle. It is so difficult to raise Modest, Kind, Respectful Children in this day and age . My 8 year old grandson and I were out and about together when he saw a very immodestly dressed woman and stated Nana she looks very inappropriate. I concurred and then told him that perhaps she doesn’t know any better. Teach your children then pray for and with them constantly. Most importantly love them.
I feel your pain! I personally believe the great sifting is happening like never before. The parable of the wheat and the tares might help; I believe in Isaiah there is a scripture that says when He comes again He will clean the inner vessel first — meaning the church itself. The parable of the 10 virgins is interesting, too. Because all 10 were pure… but only half were ready. This also applies to church membership. I hope you write a follow up article to this. Thank you
I have had the same questions. I asked a Temple worker on one occasion and she said they do not want people to feel they don’t belong or not welcome there so they are discouraged from saying anything. I understand, but where are our morals being taught then? Maybe the moral line is more blurred than it used to be with so many changes so quickly. What is acceptable and what is just “old tradition”?