A nice man named Seth made some comments on my YouTube channel and then asked me to text him so that we could chat further.
I soon realized that he was pretty invested in witnessing to me about everything wrong with Joseph Smith and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In his opinion, he was in the right and I was wrong. He also believed I was just too scared to admit it, and with time, and with support from him, I would come to see the light.
It got to a point in the conversation with Seth that I told him he had nothing to add – he was just trying to take away from my beliefs.
Take away what? I got to thinking of some of the beliefs that I would have to abandon if I left The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- The knowledge of the Godhead. Instead of 3 separate beings I get one entity that is unknowable.
- I have to give back the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price
- Living prophets? Can’t keep those either.
- The quorum of the twelve apostles and their ministry throughout the world? Gone too. (I was personally ministered to by a member of the twelve just days before this article was written)
- The role of temples – yeah, that’s not necessary in Seth’s religious framework
- The list could go on and on (an increased understanding of the afterlife, the conditional and unconditional nature of Christ’s salvation, the authority of the priesthood that allows me to bless my family)
This is in direct contrast to our position declared by President Gordon B. Hinckley: “To anybody who is not of this Church, I say we recognize all of the virtues and the good that you have. Bring it with you and see if we might add to it.”
This exchange with Seth reminded me of a visit I made with my wife and daughter to a ward in New York that my daughter had served in as a missionary. During Elders Quorum, a concerned quorum member brought up the fact that one of their elders had left for another church and asked how concerned we should be when some leaves the Church to go to another denomination?
There were a few comments made, but the gist of those comments was that we shouldn’t be too concerned, and that the most important thing was that a person is trying to come closer to Christ. I think the brethren handled the conversation well, but after a few minutes of feeling restless, and after the topic changed to something else, I had to raise my hand and respond.
I shared with brethren that my thoughts were led to what I would be willing to give up to leave this church. Was I willing to give up the Book of Mormon? The priesthood authority to act in God’s name? The covenants I have made in the temple? The understanding of the plan of salvation? My response was similar to the comments I made to Seth. Any other church I would go to would force me to give up so much truth, and a must more expanded view of the gospel of Jesus Christ and of diving truth.
As I finished my comments, there was a general sense in the room that I had hit a nail on the head, and there a lot of nodding heads, followed by a member of the Bishopric who confirmed my words.
To anybody who is not of this Church, I say we recognize all of the virtues and the good that you have. Bring it with you and see if we might add to it.
Sometimes we don’t consider the things we are giving up because we don’t realize what we have. In a recent training I attended with Elder Gary E. Stevenson, he talked about counseling with members who have asked to have their records removed. He suggested starting from the beginning. Do they believe in God the Eternal Father, and His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? Do they believe they are three separate beings? Because that is a very unique and foundational difference between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other religions.
What elements of your testimony do you treasure? Would you have to give those up if you left the fullness of the gospel? Trust me, I’ve seen this. I know many people who have left this church and they start deconstructing their beliefs one by one, and then have to build their foundation once again.
I remember one friend in particular took to Facebook within the first few months and asked people what they believed about God so that he could start to form his own belief. That has to be a devastating and confusing process.
One thing I won’t give up? The chance to receive two hugs. One from God the Father, and the other from my Elder Brother Jesus Christ. The knowledge of these two supreme beings, their distinct roles in my life, and these very different relationships is something I won’t give up. Ever. And that’s something Seth wanted to take away from me.
What is one truth that we are taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that you are not willing to give up?
Thank you so much for your comment!
I searched through 7 different Christian churches and world religions and turned to agnosticism as the only “logical” recourse to all the religious confusion. With the invitation of a member, I investigated and joined the LDS Church as 21-year old.
All other churches believe that life begins at birth. Since the also believe that God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, why didn’t God create us ALL like Jesus? Doesn’t love us equally? Not powerful enough? Could only do it once? See Ecclesiastes 12:7 in which is stated that when we die our bodies return to the earth (dust) and our spirits RETURN to God. It is very difficult to return to a place if we were never there in the first place. Jeremiah 1:5 states that God set apart and (fore)ordained Jeremiah to a prophet. It is impossible to do so if Jeremiah didn’t exist prior to physical birth.
Acts 3 talks about a restitution of ALL things before Jesus comes a second time. How is that to happen? Amos 3:7 — God will do nothing until he reveals his secrets unto his servants, the prophets.
God is unchanging. He had prophets on the earth for about 4,000 years. Where is today’s? Are too wicked to deserve one or too righteous that we don’t need one? Ephesians is full of statements that say we will have and need living prophets. (Eph. 2:19-20, Eph 4:11-14…)
“Til death do us part” for marriages. No thanx. Yay for the RESTORED GOSPEL, Priesthood authority, etc.
Romans 8:16-18 says we can become Joint Heirs with Jesus. Not just choir singers but joint heirs to inherit His divine powers of creation, etc. This is not in any other belief system.
John 3:5 says that no one (a superlative) can enter the kingdom of God without “baptism of…” Why would an all loving God purposely create a plan that 99% of kids could not achieve due to no fault of their own. (I Cor 15:29)
Adam and Eve blowing it in the Garden of Eve?? Really?? God was fooled by Adam and Eve. Yes, the fell ….. forward but not down.
Add to all this logic the constant (and sometimes overwhelming) witness of the Holy Spirit!!
ETC ETC ETC
Your comment on losing out on the “hugs” from the Father and the Son, I think, were particularly poignant. My wife and I have recently put together a video testimony of Joseph Smith that gets to the heart of this matter, as well. Too many have surrendered their faith, only to learn one coming day that “blessed are those who have not seen, who have believed.” God bless you, and Merry Christmas to all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FwGtDVXJMo&t=81s
The knowledge that Heavenly Father is real and my relationship with him and my Brother Jesus Christ is real. The knowledge that Families Are Forever.
For me a knowledge of the Plan of Salvation is the foundation of what can add to other faith groups. But I sense that the majority of those who leave are heading to the “Great and Spacious Building.” Satan looms large in our day and tells bigger lies than ever before.
I would have to give up the expanded spiritual knowledge that I have, and I am not willing to give up the words of living prophets.
I would not give up my testimony of our living prophet or my temple reccomend!! Ever!
Great thoughts Terry! Have you ever read the book “They Knew the Prophet”?? It is one of my favorite books. It contains over 100 personal accounts of those who knew Joseph Smith. How I treasure there words! I think you can still find it on Amazon > https://amzn.to/41zKcZ3
Well said, and a great talk that I need to revisit!
Thanks for taking the time to write out this comment Eric!
Mark, thank you so much for sharing your perspective! So many incredible principles of the gospel that we know so much more about thanks to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I have thought about this topic many times, as my sister and a dear friend both left the Church.
– Salvation for the dead. A local Christian church’s website has a page called “What We Believe”, where they say, “We believe that those persons who die without faith in Jesus Christ spend eternity in Hell.” That pretty much writes off every person in the history of the earth who died before 30 A.D. and most of the non-Christian people in the world in the last 2,000 years. What a tragedy to believe that.
– Pre-Mortal Existence. I could not find a single Christian denomination that believes we lived before we were born. Most other churches have condemned the concept as heresy. So they will never understand that we are literal spirit sons and daughters of God, and without that knowledge, the Plan of Salvation doesn’t make sense.
– Modern-day Prophets, Apostles and Revelation. Why would any Christian reject such additional guidance and knowledge from God, and instead rely solely on the Bible, written 2,000+ years ago,
through translation from multiple languages, especially seeing how it has been “interpreted” so differently by other Churches? “And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another.” There are so many plain and precious truths that have been revealed to us in modern days that are not even mentioned in the Bible.
I am so thankful for the restored Gospel, and all the additional knowledge we have that other Churches don’t have. I would never give that up.
Every one of us were born and trained in the Celestial world to inherit Celestial glory. We each chose to follow the Father’s plan for us to pass through this mortal life to utilize our agency expressly for the purpose of qualifying to be resurrected and exalted. God did not foreordain any of us to fall short of that goal, but he also will not stop us from using our agency to choose to fall short of that goal. Anyone who departs from the church after having made sacred covenants necessary for achieving the greatest gift of eternal life, does so because they have lost site of the purpose for which they expressly chose to come to earth to achieve. Yes, we should be concerned for their welfare, ever reaching out to invite them to repent and return, else we risk being accountable for their sins, and they risk being denied forgiveness for their sins in this life and in the life to come. Our commitments to each other in this life are second only to our covenants with God and are in fact a part of our convents with God.
I would have to give up the Book of Mormon and the power that comes from reading this book of scripture. It has the power to cleanse, comfort, heal, restore, succor, strengthen, console, and cheer us.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2017/10/the-book-of-mormon-what-would-your-life-be-like-without-it?lang=eng
Over the past 15 months, through reading and impressions, I have been reminded over and over of the truthfulness of the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Where are we without the inquiring mind of a fourteen year old boy responding to a scriptural challenge in the book of James, first chapter, fifth verse? His question: Which of all the churches is true? Leading to a prayer in a grove of trees. During which he was visited by our Heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. Did it happen or didnt it? I testify that Joseph Smith did see these two Heavenly Beings, and of every good thing that has come because of that vision. Some gain their testimony because of this event. Others gain a sure knowledge of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Whichever way it happens, the two are forever linked. The true Church of Jesus Christ is on the Earth today, because of Joseph Smith and his continued courage despite years of harassment from the adversary and those in concert with him. Those who took part in the murder of Joseph, and his brother Hyrum, believed that with their deaths Mormonism would end. Truth cannot be stopped! We worship God the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. We have the gospel in its fullness, and every ordinance necessary to save ourselves and our families on both sides of the veil. I thank God for the Prophet Joseph Smith! Where are we without him?
Beautiful thoughts, thank you Roseanne!
I love it Steven! Those are great doctrines.
I’m not willing to give up the knowledge that loving family relationships can endure forever. Nor that a loving Father in Heaven has provided a kingdom of glory perfectly suited to the desires and capacities of virtually all His children.
That Heavenly Father loves me, wants me to come home to Him, and wants to help me. Also, the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I am a convert, so I know what it’s like to live without that. Also, to know that I am up beloved daughter of Heavenly Father is priceless.
I grew up as a Catholic, and the version of God that I was taught with someone who was just waiting to catch me screwing up. There was no love for or from Him only fear.